• Registered: 2012-04-27
  • Posts: 49

Topic: Footswitch options?

So I've had the VLT for a few days now and have been experimenting with not only the various effects and harmonies, but also with how it will fit into my live shows. For me, I can see using this to add accent harmonies and upgrade my overall sound. An example: On a song like "Peacefull Easy Feeling", I would use my voice solo on the verses, and kick in a light harmony on the choruses, also dropping harmony in on some phrases within the later verses.

To do that requires frequent and carefully timed use of the footswitch. (I bought the TCH Switch-3 to go with the VLT.) That works fine technically. But it's not the most comfortable action in the world, especially when using the footswitch many times during a song. To keep my foot at the ready, I basically have to rest it on the switch and tap as needed. Also, I generally stand when I play, which means that using the footswitch has me shifting my weight to my other leg, which can get a bit uncomfortable over the course of a performance.

I think you get the idea. So my question is: Are there any other options (standard or 'creative') that allow for easier on/off control of the harmonies throughout songs? I have to think there is a way to extend the control of just that one button to a more sensitive, easier to activate switch of some kind. (BTW, if this doesn't exist, I think we may be on to a worthwhile invention idea here...)

Any suggestions or ideas?

Thanks

Bob

Last edited by bobbytee (2012-04-30 06:22:54)

  • From: United Kingdom
  • Registered: 2011-12-23
  • Posts: 295

Re: Footswitch options?

Hi

TC_helicon do a MP-75 Mic, that has configurable switch on it so that could be used for harmonies on/off, may not be as positive in feel as a foot switch though.

Editors for VoiceLive Touch and VoiceLive Touch 2

shoxproductions's Website

  • Registered: 2012-04-27
  • Posts: 49

Re: Footswitch options?

I've seen the MP-75 mic, but unless I'm wrong, it requires hand activation, yes? Not an option for me, as I am playing guitar.

But thanks!

  • From: Victoria, BC
  • Registered: 2011-07-25
  • Posts: 2,060

Re: Footswitch options?

Heya Bobbytee,

I've found it awkward to use the S3 too, but it's something that I stuck with and eventually got the muscle memory sorted out. Now I hardly have to think about it.

It seemed harder to focus a pedal on my vocals compared to guitar for some reason. I guess maybe it's a rub-your-belly, pat-your-head type feeling.

We added a Momentary version of all the Harmony S3 implementations in the Beta software, so that might help a bit. Not having to click-harmony-click takes some of the coordination out of the loop.

Cheers,
Craig

Craig @ TC-Helicon's Website

  • Registered: 2012-04-27
  • Posts: 49

Re: Footswitch options?

Craig, thanks for the feedback. I don't really have any issue with the timing/thinking part, or focusing on the pedal use. (I have never used a pedal before, for guitar or other.) It's really just a physical issue. Having my foot positioned at the ready for a toe switch while standing just feels awkward and is very limiting in terms of stance. The switch itself is probably a good 2" off the floor, which makes it hard to stand naturally and use the switch constantly. (I actually think it would work better as a heel switch, if that makes any sense!) I'd love to figure a way to have a VERY low profile switch, maybe even one that is virtually flat, like a flexible mat, with a simple momentary switch just for the harmony on/off.

Sounds like maybe no such thing exists currently, but I would think the electronics would be fairly simple... but then again, I am no electrician!

  • Registered: 2011-08-27
  • Posts: 133

Re: Footswitch options?

How about programing all VLT actions via midi cc's.  The VLT is certainly desiged to switch any function with a midi control command.

Jazzmandan
www.jazzmandan.com
This Forum is Only As Good as the Folks Who Contribute.
  • Registered: 2012-04-27
  • Posts: 49

Re: Footswitch options?

jazzmandan,

Being a very analog guy, and a guitar one at that, I have no idea what you just said! smile

But I assume you mean something along the lines of programming a digital key or button of some sort to control the VLT?

If so, how might that translate into a device that allows for control while playing guitar?

(My mind is picturing a mousetrap-type of rig using a rinky-dink mini keyboard with a string taped to one of the keys leading to a thin piece of wood on the floor that, when depressed, pulls down on the key and activates the control!)

Bobby

  • Registered: 2010-11-22
  • Posts: 151

Re: Footswitch options?

I understand. I like the idea of a momentary switch.... as long as it doesn't go into the chord select from holding the button too long... I now have my harmony pedal to my left a bit and either use my left foot or turn a bit and use my right. my midi guitar stuff sits in the middle with guitar stuff to the right. too many friggin pedals at times to work hehe..

wanna try tough, forget to wear proper shoes and show up in a pair of crocks. now that makes hitting those buttons even harder... yup last weekend I did just that.

  • Registered: 2011-08-27
  • Posts: 133

Re: Footswitch options?

bobbytee wrote:

jazzmandan,

Being a very analog guy, and a guitar one at that, I have no idea what you just said! smile

But I assume you mean something along the lines of programming a digital key or button of some sort to control the VLT?

If so, how might that translate into a device that allows for control while playing guitar?

(My mind is picturing a mousetrap-type of rig using a rinky-dink mini keyboard with a string taped to one of the keys leading to a thin piece of wood on the floor that, when depressed, pulls down on the key and activates the control!)

Bobby

Go to page 27 of Manual.  There you will find a list of Midi commends (cc's) for virtually every setting in the VLT.  Now image you could string togehter a sequence of commends in a linear fashion such that when you stated your song a timer would play along and at the exact times in you sequence, activate each command with no interaction by you other than to start the sequece when you start the song.  So when the chorus comes up that first time Harmony turns on for 4 bars and then turns off.  That is the way Midi cc's work.  You simply need a sequencer to create the midi sequence (Reaper will do that thank you) and then you need a midi player to input to the VLT.  Is that a little clearer?  Is this what you are looking for?  Or am I just being a Midiot.

Last edited by jazzmandan (2012-04-30 12:40:37)

Jazzmandan
www.jazzmandan.com
This Forum is Only As Good as the Folks Who Contribute.
  • Registered: 2012-04-27
  • Posts: 49

Re: Footswitch options?

Yes, very much clearer! But as with all things, the more I know, the more I question...

Are you saying that the sequence would be based on timing? That is, real time? In other words, when I start my song and sequence, the chorus harmony is going to kick in at, say, 54 seconds, 1:45, 2:30, etc. every time? If so, while that is pretty cool, it assumes I will play the song in exactly the same time EVERY time. Being something of a freewheeling solo player who likes to go with the flow and mix up my song presentations on the fly, I know that's not the case. And even if I was very close every time, being off by just a second, plus or minus, would potentially make a mess of the song, right?

I really want to maintain a live and loose feel, so I think I'm still looking at finding a more ergonomic way to trigger the harmonies as I play.

Am I understanding the midi sequence concept correctly?

Thanks!

  • Registered: 2012-04-27
  • Posts: 49

Re: Footswitch options?

Pipeous-

I hear you on the too many pedals. This is the first pedal or processor of any kind that I've ever used, so I want to keep it as stripped down and simple as possible. I also hear you on the footwear. First night I got this last week, I enthusiastically set it up in the basement and start experimenting, but without shoes. That didn't last long...

By the way, I found a different 3-way footswitch that I wonder could work with the VLT. It's the DigiTech GNXFC Footswitch (http://www.zzounds.com/item--DGTGNXFC), and while it it still a footswitch, the switches are flatter and rubber-like, which - assuming it actually works with VLT - could make for more comfortable use in my case. Anyone know if this will work with VLT?

Bobby

  • Registered: 2011-08-27
  • Posts: 133

Re: Footswitch options?

bobbytee wrote:

Yes, very much clearer! But as with all things, the more I know, the more I question...

Are you saying that the sequence would be based on timing? That is, real time? In other words, when I start my song and sequence, the chorus harmony is going to kick in at, say, 54 seconds, 1:45, 2:30, etc. every time? If so, while that is pretty cool, it assumes I will play the song in exactly the same time EVERY time. Being something of a freewheeling solo player who likes to go with the flow and mix up my song presentations on the fly, I know that's not the case. And even if I was very close every time, being off by just a second, plus or minus, would potentially make a mess of the song, right?

I really want to maintain a live and loose feel, so I think I'm still looking at finding a more ergonomic way to trigger the harmonies as I play.

Am I understanding the midi sequence concept correctly?

Thanks!


You got it right.  Everything exactly in time, so don't mess up.  Here is waht I do.  I play guitar and have a midi track playing backing with drums, piano and full band at time (think PGMusic BIAB).  With this the arrangement is all fixed when I start the song so coding in the VLT cc's is a natural.  Each to his own.

Jazzmandan
www.jazzmandan.com
This Forum is Only As Good as the Folks Who Contribute.
  • Registered: 2012-04-27
  • Posts: 49

Re: Footswitch options?

Understood, jazzmandan. Just a different style than I do. Thanks!

  • Registered: 2011-12-14
  • Posts: 12

Re: Footswitch options?

Not sure if this would be more comfortable for you, but you could get a MIDI foot controller pedal and use a rocking motion to turn it on and off.  I have a Behringer FCB1010 board that can be calibrated so that this is possible.  I haven't tried it myself, but it might work for you.

  • Registered: 2012-04-27
  • Posts: 49

Re: Footswitch options?

Bradmeister,

Thanks. Yes, I have been looking at something like this. Yours is much larger and more elaborate than I'd need or want, but I have seen some other simple MIDI foot controllers (Boss, for example) that appear to have a 'softer' switch. I'm not familiar with MIDI setup, so a little hesitant to buy gear just for testing. But we'll see. I'm gonna try to get to a store and try some pedals just to see how they feel for starters. Thanks for the suggestion.

  • Registered: 2011-08-15
  • Posts: 28

Re: Footswitch options?

the footswitch 3 is very bulky and outdated, it looks like something out of the 50's or 60's, TC helicon needs to make a soft touch pedal similar to the Boss F5-5U

John

www.youtube.com/martinguitarlover1
  • Registered: 2012-07-09
  • Posts: 18

Re: Footswitch options?

Wow I use a GR55 with my VLT and I have to constantly switch from synth to guitar to harmonies and no harmonies and I can appreciate your discomfort but just having one switch to worry about would be nice.  If you just need to switch harmonies on and off I believe all that is needed is to take a TRS to TRS cable and plug it into the footswitch and then find what it takes to trigger the on and off of harmonies.  I believe it is the tip and sleeve.  Then you can have any sort of momentary switch you want to trigger it.  You could mount it on your guitar but you would have to run a cord from guitar to the VLT. This is only if you want it to just trigger the harmony on and off.  If you still wanted to use your floor pedal you would have to get a Female/Female/Male y chord that is TRS. Just some suggestions but what I am getting at is triggering harmony on and off is a pretty straight forward process.

  • Registered: 2012-04-27
  • Posts: 49

Re: Footswitch options?

@pedwards2932: Thanks for the input. Yes, that's what I was thinking as well. Just a simple single switch that could be any kind of momentary or latch switch that allows for very easy on/off throughout a song. Doesn't have to be stuck to the floor; in fact, it would be great if the switch could move with me, like on the guitar (as you noted, although with my hands busy during a song, I'm not sure that's the best location) or even on my foot. That actually has me thinking of a small switch that could be attached to my foot with an elastic band so that the pressure switch can be tapped from any position (heel, toe, or even side of foot).

This is all pie in the sky, of course! But that's how innovations happen, right? Bottom line is that I would like at the very least to come up with a lower profile, softer touch switch to turn harmonies on/off while singing. Using the existing clunky metal switch is doable, but not ideal by any means for frequent on the fly use. 

Thanks again!

bobby

  • Registered: 2012-07-09
  • Posts: 18

Re: Footswitch options?

Boss makes several switches that are fairly easy to use.  I guess what I am saying is all you need to do is figure out what the switch needs to connect and you can do it with the TRS cable that came with your floor switch by just experimenting by connecting tip to sleeve.  I bought a Boss FS-5u and it isn't wired properly to work but I am pretty sure I could make it work. I just haven't found the digitech one to be that bad. This one may be easier for you to use:
http://www.zzounds.com/item--DGTGNXFC
I can't verify that it will work but I think it is wired the same as the VLT switch.

  • Registered: 2012-04-27
  • Posts: 49

Re: Footswitch options?

I've seen the one you posted and may look into it. I hear you on the basic idea as well. Could also be a way to keep the footswitch connected but wire a bypass to a separate switch. I'm no engineer, but I would think this is just a matter of making and interupting a connection, so there must be a way...

Thanks again.

  • Registered: 2011-08-15
  • Posts: 28

Re: Footswitch options?

pedwards2932 wrote:

This one may be easier for you to use:
http://www.zzounds.com/item--DGTGNXFC
I can't verify that it will work but I think it is wired the same as the VLT switch.

this is perfect, can anyone verify if it will work with the Voicetouch?

John

www.youtube.com/martinguitarlover1
  • Registered: 2012-04-27
  • Posts: 49

Re: Footswitch options?

Just bumping this last question about the DigiTech GNXFC Footswitch.

http://www.zzounds.com/item--DGTGNXFC 

Is there any way (short of buying and testing) to confirm if it will work with the VLT?

  • Registered: 2011-08-15
  • Posts: 28

Re: Footswitch options?

I bought the DigiTech pedal and it does work with the VoiceLive Touch

Last edited by HAmmer32261 (2012-10-10 09:20:25)

John

www.youtube.com/martinguitarlover1
  • Registered: 2012-04-27
  • Posts: 49

Re: Footswitch options?

Great update. Thanks for doing the field test! I found the DigiTech for $29.99.

bobby

  • Registered: 2012-04-02
  • Posts: 43

Re: Footswitch options?

I happened to have my Johnson Millenium 3-button switch laying around and it works fine with the VLT. It's just a connection between the tip-sleeve, ring-sleeve or tip-ring-sleeve and it can be done with SPST (normally open) or SPDT switches and two diodes or DPST (normally open) or DPDT switches alone. Naturally you want them to be momentary. I'd make a big low-profile thingy that's easy to hit and maybe just have one switch to turn the harmonies off and on. Use your imagination and make the activator comfortable and convenient. Adding the switching should be simple. Shoot, you could probably use some thin plywood, duct tape, thumb tacks and tin foil!

Last edited by crazynightowl (2012-10-10 19:25:50)