Topic: VL2 WALL WART!!!! R U KIDDING ME

Ok - the VL2 is amazing, blah blah blah... BUT what is up with sticking us with the wall wart? I mean, Really? This thing is developed for like 3 years and is over engineered state of the art and can mix a margarita while I sing 19 part harmonies and get a foot massage - but you design it to include a wall wart? What gives TC? Would it cost an extra $20 to have included a professional detachable 3 pronged power supply? And not only is it a cheap ass POS wall wart... it is like 3 ft. long TOPS!!!! So let me get this straight - obviously you designed this so that I am supposed to plug this chintzy ass POS cable that my cat could break in to an extension cord - with no ground - and then run it to the power supply which is usually 10 - 15 feet off to the side of the stage. Thanks.  Great foresight.

I could go on and on about how shitty it is to have a wall wart for something that sits at the front of the stage (guitar pedals not included - they usually go on a pedal board and are strapped down in a system of velcro) but you get the point... I think you TC guys need to explain yourselves on this ridiculous blunder, er I mean decision.

Last edited by spakuloid (2009-11-06 14:37:11)

Re: VL2 WALL WART!!!! R U KIDDING ME

I'm just doing what the guitar players do, and have a pedal board. that way, the VL2 stays put, and the wall wart doesnt get in my way.

Re: VL2 WALL WART!!!! R U KIDDING ME

spakuloid wrote:

Ok - the VL2 is amazing, blah blah blah... BUT what is up with sticking us with the wall wart? I mean, Really? This thing is developed for like 3 years and is over engineered state of the art and can mix a margarita while I sing 19 part harmonies and get a foot massage - but you design it to include a wall wart? What gives TC? Would it cost an extra $20 to have included a professional detachable 3 pronged power supply? And not only is it a cheap ass POS wall wart... it is like 3 ft. long TOPS!!!! So let me get this straight - obviously you designed this so that I am supposed to plug this chintzy ass POS cable that my cat could break in to an extension cord - with no ground - and then run it to the power supply which is usually 10 - 15 feet off to the side of the stage. Thanks.  Great foresight.

I could go on and on about how shitty it is to have a wall wart for something that sits at the front of the stage (guitar pedals not included - they usually go on a pedal board and are strapped down in a system of velcro) but you get the point... I think you TC guys need to explain yourselves on this ridiculous blunder, er I mean decision.

Hiya Spakuloid,

Well if you got a power supply that has a 3 foot lead then you have every right to be annoyed on that front. The cable on the power supply included with VoiceLive 2 and the VoiceTone is 6 feet long. So please get in touch with support if you got something different to get it replaced.

So why the wall wart power supply? We understand where you’re coming from, if you jumped into the office at TC-Helicon they all like a big hunks of cable coming out of products that connect right to the wall like any breathing guitar playing singer! However, that same team likes to research things, and like you said, they spent years working on this product. I’ll give you some detail. We know you would have preferred an external power supply. But I trust getting some of the detail below will help gain trust that all of us at TC-Helicon aren’t just crazy;-)

So here is the deal, VoiceLive 2 needs to get power from the wall, get it into the unit, and then clean/transform it to power all the electronics inside (enjoy the simplification;-). We point this out, because essentially there is nothing different between an internal or external power supply except where it exists in space. Quality of power supply can vary whether it’s internal or external. So the main reason why TC-Helicon opted for external is to reduce the foot print of the product, and reduce any heat risks. Then of course, going external meant finding a quality power supply that can meet the audio requirements. There aren’t many generic external or internal power supplies for effect pedals that get the audio performance of VoiceTone or VoiceLive 2. So it wasn’t picking a random power supply  - it was trying dozens and in the end modifying the design of the power supply that we use.

Of course another difference between internal and external is the connection to the device. An IEC three connector power chord is a very robust connection. The weak point of an wall-wart power supply is the material around the connector. This was tested for all power supplies. In fact, we even continue to test this issue based on real world use. Design changes have happened throughout the life of VoiceTone products that have made this connection robust with comparable quality to an IEC connector.

So there you have it, the definitive guide on why VoiceLive 2 uses an external power supply from TC-Helicon. We know you’ll still curse at a wall wart just like an annoying younger sibling – but in the end it was created with the same care as others things in the TC-Helicon family!

Best wishes,

Joey

Re: VL2 WALL WART!!!! R U KIDDING ME

Hi Joey,

thanks for that explanation. But onestly speaking - could it be that this is only half of the story? Why do manufacturers use external power suply's? Simple answer: Because it is cheaper for them. They can shift the cost for the electrical security checks and the accountability to the company that produce the external power suply, and more over they dont have to spant much effort in the design of the housig and the board in terms of reducing hum and/or interspersion problems.

OK - under certain condition I can accept that. But:

1) for me it's better to invest e.g. 50 bugs more for a realy good solution in the beginning then spending the same afer each tour because the wall wart is gone.

2) Why not using a external power supply with 2 cables (the AC part plugable) This would make much more sens and is definitly the solution that is more relaible.

3) If you like to come up with somthing realy innovativ take a look to apple's "magnetic power plug" Why is something like this only available for a computer? OK I know IPR's... but hey - if you like you will find a way ... ;-)

Maybe you can post point two and three to the developers. Maybe there is a way to make an different power suply available.

best regards
Andreas Deppe

Re: VL2 WALL WART!!!! R U KIDDING ME

Yeah... What he said. smile

FWIW I have several rack units that are half racks - ie - not as big as the VL2 and they have a standard 3 pronged IEC detachable power cord. Carl Martin makes all of their premium guitar pedals with internal power cords (2 prong - not iec) Even if it meant making the footprint of the unit 1" bigger -- who would care? And at this price point - you are not talking entry level consumer - so another $50 would have gone unnoticed by your consumer base. Please incorporate this into your next version. It is a very solid unit that becomes entry level cheese at the power section. I would expect this from Roland and Korg - but not you guys...

Re: VL2 WALL WART!!!! R U KIDDING ME

adeppe wrote:

Hi Joey,

thanks for that explanation. But onestly speaking - could it be that this is only half of the story? Why do manufacturers use external power suply's? Simple answer: Because it is cheaper for them. They can shift the cost for the electrical security checks and the accountability to the company that produce the external power suply, and more over they dont have to spant much effort in the design of the housig and the board in terms of reducing hum and/or interspersion problems.

OK - under certain condition I can accept that. But:

1) for me it's better to invest e.g. 50 bugs more for a realy good solution in the beginning then spending the same afer each tour because the wall wart is gone.

2) Why not using a external power supply with 2 cables (the AC part plugable) This would make much more sens and is definitly the solution that is more relaible.

3) If you like to come up with somthing realy innovativ take a look to apple's "magnetic power plug" Why is something like this only available for a computer? OK I know IPR's... but hey - if you like you will find a way ... ;-)

Maybe you can post point two and three to the developers. Maybe there is a way to make an different power suply available.

best regards
Andreas Deppe

Hiya Andreas,

Wall warts never knew they’d get so much attention. By the way, I totally agree on the Apple magnetic connecter... what a great innovation!

Best wishes,

Joey

Re: VL2 WALL WART!!!! R U KIDDING ME

'Not that big a deal to me.  I like that the wart and cord are lighter and take up less space than an IEC cord.

Re: VL2 WALL WART!!!! R U KIDDING ME

Another thing Joey, from a guitarist point of view, I have three of the voicetone pedals on my pedalboard, why do they have to be 14v, not 12v or 9v? It means that I cannot run the pedals from my pedalboard power supply, (9 or 12), I have to have a 3 UK plug extension screwed to my board to run the three warts, takes up loads of space and is a very inelegant solution. I've got the guys who build Matt Bellamy from Muse's gear working on my board at present - they were surprised that you would use 14v on a external power supply, apart from cost-saving. I think a degree more transparent listening to end-users would be appreciated, I've had issues for a couple of years and we still haven't sorted them, I work with PA every day of my life. Remember, satisfied end-users are your best ambassadors. Regards, Steve D.

Re: VL2 WALL WART!!!! R U KIDDING ME

i-MC wrote:

Another thing Joey, from a guitarist point of view, I have three of the voicetone pedals on my pedalboard, why do they have to be 14v, not 12v or 9v? It means that I cannot run the pedals from my pedalboard power supply, (9 or 12), I have to have a 3 UK plug extension screwed to my board to run the three warts, takes up loads of space and is a very inelegant solution. I've got the guys who build Matt Bellamy from Muse's gear working on my board at present - they were surprised that you would use 14v on a external power supply, apart from cost-saving. I think a degree more transparent listening to end-users would be appreciated, I've had issues for a couple of years and we still haven't sorted them, I work with PA every day of my life. Remember, satisfied end-users are your best ambassadors. Regards, Steve D.

Hiya Steve,

I'm a little bit confused here as to the best of my knowledge we don’t use 14V power supplies. All VoiceTone products use 12V .4A wall warts and VoiceLive 2 uses a 12V 1A wall wart. Are you sure yours is a 14v?

Best wishes,

Joey

Re: VL2 WALL WART!!!! R U KIDDING ME

Joey, you're damn right, they ARE 12v's, and the reason I have to have the multiple extension lead is 'cause the damn board only has one 12v supply. Plus at 300 ma draw, three 'Voicetones' would smoke the board - quite literally... Regards, Steve.

Re: VL2 WALL WART!!!! R U KIDDING ME

@i-MC: would you want the VL2 to have an internal PSU? This would require your board to present it with 220V AC. And you would have to find a pretty short powercord.

Processing power needs electrical power; simple as that. Can the pedalboard be fitted with a more powerfull PSU?


(btw: PSU is short for Power Supply Unit)

Re: VL2 WALL WART!!!! R U KIDDING ME

Hello Mike, on investigation, as Joey kindly pointed out, my board doesn't have enough 12v lines or enough amps of power to run the pedals, so I'm forced to mount an external adaptor. I've been getting a little tetchy with the rig lately 'cause I can't control the early onset feedback, despite trying a million different configurations. I was going to ditch all the 'voicetones' bar the 'create', but have decided to keep working with 'create' and 'correct' if I can come up with a workable solution - currently everytime I use it in anger I end up either disengaging 'adaptive' or getting lost in the mix...

'Create' is a brilliant pedal tho' - wonderful 'slap' echo that suits our set.

Merry Christmas.

i-MC

Re: VL2 WALL WART!!!! R U KIDDING ME

Family history and genealogy plans like genealogy software are particular computer programs. These products deal with additional than anticipated aspects of a person’s everyday life. They can handle a person’s supply info, their free- kind information, pictures and most significantly alternative forms of multi-media, though their primary goal is to collect information. This profession has to become done with care since the subsequent step of activity from the genealogy system depends upon the reliability with the information. They usually record specifics about your place and date associated with birth, your location of matrimony or if accomplished on account of an terminated individual, his’ or her’ place and time of your demise. They also document an individual’s interactions from mums and dads to couples to youngsters. Then the function with the software would be to arrange and place out this sort of family history and genealogical information. So please get in touch with support if you got something different to get it replaced. We know you would have preferred an external power supply. An IEC three connector power chord is a very robust connection. This was tested for all power supplies. Design changes have happened throughout the life of VoiceTone products that have made this connection robust with comparable quality to an IEC connector. Maybe there is a way to make an different power suply available. Please incorporate this into your next version. It is a very solid unit that becomes entry level cheese at the power section.  I like that the wart and cord are lighter and take up less space than an IEC cord.

Re: VL2 WALL WART!!!! R U KIDDING ME

(SIGH)..I must chime in here. I just picked up a VL2 to replace a rack mounted Voice Prism. I just started to cable up the unit when "BAM"..The ugly wall wart won't fit into my rack mount power conditioner with the other cords connected. Of course my Voice Prism has a standard power cord. I suppose I need to find a small extension cord or something.

The power supply that came with my mixer is what I thought the VL2 would have come with. It is a standard power cord to a "brick", then out to the 2-pin smaller barrel cable. It is connects to my power conditioner just fine.

BTW, The wall wart looks and feel cheap. Sorry, but the Voice Prism seems like a more professional to me so far. I will let you know how the VL2 performs once I can find a way to plug in the power...

Re: VL2 WALL WART!!!! R U KIDDING ME

Hey camtah,

Feel fortunate that your VL2 has a power switch (even though the wall wart stays powered). I have an original version Voicelive that has a conventional power cord, but no power switch.
Unfortunately my VL seems to have a problem where if I plug it in to a live outlet and it doesn't make good connection at the first instant, the boot of the unit sometimes goes haywire and it locks up with the display showing only partially and the patches not working. This also occurs occasionally if I have it plugged into a power strip that also powers up other gear that may cause a momentary spike or drop in voltage. If I power it up by itself all is usually good. I'm of the belief that if my unit had a power switch some of this problem might be semi fixed or at least have a band-aid for the problem. I don't perform live so I can live with it the way it is and I figure the cost of sending it in for repair isn't worth it to me.