• Registered: 2007-11-28
  • Posts: 18

Topic: Vocal fry?

Hello, I'm a newbee to this forum, so hey!  smile  Umm.  I have been screaming in metal music for about 1 year now.  I have taken Melissa Cross's Zen of Screaming 1 + 2 and have found them very useful for screaming with endurance.  However, the thing I did not find it useful for was singing with vocal fry.  Just to clarify what I mean, singing like Chester Bennington, or Disturbed, or just about any hardcore band out there.   Singing with "grit" is basically what I am struggling with.   

At any rate I would love it if other singers out there, more knowledgible than me in this area, explained how you might do it.  Or how you might do it safely.  I have been struggling with it and I have been practicing, however, I am not getting quite the right sound.  When I try singing with vocal fry my brother tells me it sounds a little bit different, or weird.

Advice welcome, and appreciated!!  Thanks + blessings.

{Just so that everyone knows I am VERY new to even clean singing.  Singing with vocal fry or grit is quite difficult.  I am personally not a big fan of it, but singing with grit sounds wonderful with southern rock, (like bands such as "I, Sleepwalker, www.myspace.com/isleepwalker)  Unfortunately I am in a side project that is distinctly southern core.}

Gorowdon's Website

  • From: Seattle, WA USA
  • Registered: 2006-11-03
  • Posts: 775

Re: Vocal fry?

You have to train some new techniques, that therefore, train new muscle memory... specifically what your referring to in the bridging process from chest to head is training to engage the Veli Levator Palis or "soft pallate"... a soft lifting of the pallette facilitates bridging without breaking... then in order to get a full voiced tone in the head voice you need to train the ability to contract the Aryepiglottic Sphincter to get the "twang" or pharyngeal sound that "cuts"... an extreme contraction of this kind, gives you distortion... the HEALTHY KIND that Jaime Vendera is referring to above.  As Jaime was saying, distortion is an embellishment that overlays an already well established placement of the voice.  In laymens terms... you need to always Bridge first (train that skill first), then work on connecting in the head voice (turning falsetto into full voice tones)... a hyper contraction of the "twang" movement (aryepiglottic sphincter) creates distortion...now thats distortion in the head voice, like Chris Cornel, Bon Scott, Bon Jovi, Sebatian Bach...

The other kind of screams, extreme distortion like Opeth and Lamb of God... you need to train a different set of moving parts... primarily use of the FVF... or the False Vocal Folds.

Regardless if your screams are "high" screams or hyper-distortion screams... YOU MUST train the skills.  Find the right teacher and training system.  I reccomend for high screams; my book "The Four Pillars of Screaming!" or Jaime's book "Raise Your Voice"... for extreme distortion ("cookie monster"), get Melissa Cross's system...

This stuff is really some of the most advanced techniques in all singing for all genre's... it takes a lot of training and patience... but you can do it.  I suggest you get in touch with an instructor to guide you properly in the beginning.

Hope this helps.

THE VOCALIST STUDIO
Robert J. Lunte
425.444.5053
robert@thevocaliststudio.com
www.thevocaliststudio.com/endorsements
www.myspace.com/tvsvox : www.youtube.com/roblunte

Robert Lunte's Website

  • Registered: 2007-11-28
  • Posts: 18

Re: Vocal fry?

Thanks you very much Robert, I will try your book and Jaime's and continue practicing.  At this moment, unfortunately, I cannot afford a vocal teacher, so I need to practice on my own.  I have bought the Zen of Screaming 1+2 and I have been using the warmup on that cd.  I have been practicing my singing everyday and I'm pretty much just getting through the basics to facilitate a base to start exploring harder technics.   However, I do have a friend who is very good at vocals, he is a voice and music major who I will try and meet with sometime to talk about this; I remember talking about this with him before.

Have you watched the Zen of Screaming?  If you have do you agree with Melissa Cross's method of teaching "singing with vocal fry/heat"?  It is the last lesson on the DvD after the warm-ups.

Gorowdon's Website

  • Registered: 2007-11-28
  • Posts: 18

Re: Vocal fry?

Where can i find the two books that you mentioned?

Gorowdon's Website

  • From: Ohio
  • Registered: 2006-11-16
  • Posts: 550

Re: Vocal fry?

www.raiseyourvoicebook.com
www.vocaliststudio.com

There IS a technique for adding the sensation of grit to the voice WITHOUT hurting your throat. I teach it all the time, as does Robert. as far as deth metal, Melissa's program is dead on for deth metal vocals.

Jaime Vendera
JaimeVendera.com
theultimatevocalworkout.com

Jaime Vendera's Website

  • Registered: 2007-11-28
  • Posts: 18

Re: Vocal fry?

Ok, is there any possiblity of getting your books but on a student discount?

I have found Melissa Cross's DvD excellent for screaming in general.  Right now I'm in a band and I'm mostly known as "the deathmetal" vocalist.  Which kind of sucks because I would rather just be "the vocalist" I want to do everything with my voice, I want to sing, sing with heat and grit, scream, I want to use my vocal chords to express myself in many many ways.  So now I'm just trying to get the singing with grit down. 

Right now I cannot tell what chords I am using for screaming, vocal fry or FVF.  I scream the same way as Josh Scogin or Cory Brandon: www.myspace.com/normajean .  Are you able to tell by listening to them what they are doing(vocal fry/FVF)?  At any rate, when singing higher notes or when screaming.  Using this mechanism you can sing, sing with grit, and then scream.  Using this mechanism to sing or scream is like using a nob, the higher up you turn it, the more distorted the note, the lower down on the nob, the cleaner the note.  It's the same thing for high singing or screaming.  I can sing a note then put grit on it or turn it into a scream.   The way I do it is something with the muscles around my vocal chords, I have memorized what to do to create the sound.  The fun thing is that when I scream REALLY high my voice goes into falessetto somehow.  I can also sing higher using this mechanism than when I am singing normally.  Perhaps either Robert or Jaime can explain this one? 

I don't hurt myself when doing this mechanism.  I use what Melissa Cross call "rapid fire" to keep my endurance up.  At any rate I can sing with grit using this technic, however, I don't appreciate the sound.  It sounds contrived and not like my singing voice.  I would like to sing with my ordinary singing voice and naturally add grit to it.

Thank you guys for your advice, I will try and purchase both of your books sometime.

Gorowdon's Website

  • From: Seattle, WA USA
  • Registered: 2006-11-03
  • Posts: 775

Re: Vocal fry?

You can find a link to each instructors training system, (if they have one), from thier profile pages on this web site.  "Voice Council".  I dont usually listen to extreme screaming often, although I have a few choice selections in my library.  Im more of a range/prog guy... but I did go to your myspace and enjoyed it quite a bit... nice art work. 

But be carefull with this sound brother.

Cool band name too, "Norma Jean".

THE VOCALIST STUDIO
Robert J. Lunte
425.444.5053
robert@thevocaliststudio.com
www.thevocaliststudio.com/endorsements
www.myspace.com/tvsvox : www.youtube.com/roblunte

Robert Lunte's Website

  • Registered: 2007-11-28
  • Posts: 18

Re: Vocal fry?

I'm reallly sorry, but I wasn't very clear in my earlier post.  I'm not the lead singer of Norma Jean, I just have a similar high scream and scream in general, really sorry!  The site was basically illustrating the way I sound.

Gorowdon's Website

  • Registered: 2010-05-03
  • Posts: 1

Re: Vocal fry?

Hi,

I'm still wandering if it's actually possible to get a healthy scream...

Mélissa Cross say on her website about her screaming technique that "certain kinds of wear and tear that are not appropriate for classical performance"

http://www.melissacross.com/melissa_cro … tion03.php

Melissa Cross wrote:

I am at music conservatory studying to be an opera singer. I like extreme metal and I want to sing it. Will I hurt my classical career?

Yes. Don't do it, unless you intend to maintain your actual head resonance in your singing always, not merely the sensation of it. There are certain kinds of wear and tear that are not appropriate for classical performance. You need to maintain traditional vocal practice to preserve the purity of your range, which is required for classical repertoire. Wise hand models don't do construction work on the side; if you aspire to be in the opera, it's just not a good idea to sing in a metalcore band.

Is there such things as a vocal screaming technique that don't alter the voice at all?

  • Registered: 2010-05-11
  • Posts: 1

Re: Vocal fry?

hi this is abby I am from NJ I Just an account on Forum

  • Registered: 2010-02-17
  • Posts: 6

Re: Vocal fry?

Benaya wrote:

Hi,

I'm still wandering if it's actually possible to get a healthy scream...

Mélissa Cross say on her website about her screaming technique that "certain kinds of wear and tear that are not appropriate for classical performance"

http://www.melissacross.com/melissa_cro … tion03.php

Melissa Cross wrote:

I am at music conservatory studying to be an opera singer. I like extreme metal and I want to sing it. Will I hurt my classical career?

Yes. Don't do it, unless you intend to maintain your actual head resonance in your singing always, not merely the sensation of it. There are certain kinds of wear and tear that are not appropriate for classical performance. You need to maintain traditional vocal practice to preserve the purity of your range, which is required for classical repertoire. Wise hand models don't do construction work on the side; if you aspire to be in the opera, it's just not a good idea to sing in a metalcore band.

Is there such things as a vocal screaming technique that don't alter the voice at all?

This question has popped up around here a few times (including one by myself), and at this point I'm inclined to say no, there is not. Developing that part of your voice (the false folds) seems to come at the direct expense of the head voice. You can only hope to limit the damage, but this may limit the effect of your scream.

I'd be very interested in knowing why this occurs anatomically, as some singers utilizing this method seem to maintain clear chest voices. As Mark Baxter (who I have taken several lessons with) says, the same two fold produce every note.

  • Registered: 2011-10-26
  • Posts: 1

Re: Vocal fry?

Hey I am also new to this forum. I am the lead vocalist of my metalcore band and have purchased and viewed the Zen of Screaming 1&2 multiple times. Im wondering if anyone has any advice to get more power behind my voice. I sound a lot like Slipknot, Bullet For My Valentine, All That Remains, and Lamb of God vocally. Of course im using my own voice (or atleast trying to), but my screams have gotten...weak and my bandmates have been complaining about this a lot lately. Does anybody have any advice for me to get the strength and power back behind my voice?

  • Registered: 2012-05-01
  • Posts: 20

Re: Vocal fry?

hi there,

scream from the back of your tongue, and use a soft g as in good, or gone, to assist getting the sound right from the back. this will save your voice and strenthen it to  the point where you'll be able to scream like a baby and not get hoarse, and speak with the cutest most sincere voice, you've heard. also speak and sing from the back of your tongue and use it to say the words..

start all this off without too much volume, you know, walk before you run and all that..

god bless voice doctor

God Bless Voicedoctor
  • Registered: 2012-05-01
  • Posts: 20

Re: Vocal fry?

hi there,

when i say use it i mean the whole tongue, to say the word, starting from the back, even words that start with t, s, d, etc, tip of tongue sounds, start with the back involved.. but that's the advanced stuff. start with words like gone and good, or any word that causes you to make an easy sound at the back of the tongue and moves through to the middle or tip. this will train you to utalize the power of your tongue in voice, which you can then use to make all sounds effortlessly..

god bless voice doctor

God Bless Voicedoctor