• Registered: 2011-12-06
  • Posts: 32

Topic: Need help with VoiceLive Rack MIDI appplications

I am trying to control harmony On/Off  function via MIDI control change message sent by a footswitch. I have verified the footswitch is functioning correctly and is programmed with the specified CC# 110 and range values On 127 - Off 0 listed in the manual implementation chart, but the VLRack does not respond to the command. Both footswitch and VLRack are set to MIDI channel 1. If anyone out there is a "MIDI Guru" please advise, your input would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Mojo

  • From: Victoria, BC
  • Registered: 2011-07-25
  • Posts: 2,177

Re: Need help with VoiceLive Rack MIDI appplications

Heya Mojo,

Have you tried any other CC's to make sure that the unit is receiving/processing MIDI messages?

If you're using a MIDI cable, try turning USB Control to OFF in the System tab.

Cheers,
Craig

Craig @ TC-Helicon's Website

  • Registered: 2011-12-06
  • Posts: 32

Re: Need help with VoiceLive Rack MIDI appplications

Great News Craig, It Works!!!! With the addition of the MIDI Footswitch Controller and the Boss FS-5U pedal, I now have momentary control over the harmonies. The only problem is that the VLRack for some reason does not supply power to the FS Controller. I used the MIDI Out of my VoiceWorks into the MIDI In of the FS Controller and like magic it provided the necessary power to send the message. The message was recognized by the VLRack and the command executed. I know MIDI Solutions also offers a power supply for this purpose should I decide to no longer haul around my VoiceWorks. Just curious, is there a possible issue with my VLRack that prevents it from powering the FS Controller or is that normal for this unit? Maybe TCH should look into designing a Momentary MIDI pedal of it's own, I sure it would sell for such applications, just a thought. Anyway, happy to say the application works! I hope any VLRack users out there who require this function take note.

Regards,

Mojo

  • From: Victoria, BC
  • Registered: 2011-07-25
  • Posts: 2,177

Re: Need help with VoiceLive Rack MIDI appplications

Sweet smile Glad to hear it!

-C

Craig @ TC-Helicon's Website

  • Registered: 2012-02-20
  • Posts: 3

Re: Need help with VoiceLive Rack MIDI appplications

Yes but does that mean you have to pay $100 for a MIDI footswitch controller in addition to the Roland FSU?

  • From: Victoria, BC
  • Registered: 2011-07-25
  • Posts: 2,177

Re: Need help with VoiceLive Rack MIDI appplications

Oh, btw, I've never heard of MIDI providing power, but I admittedly am not a total MIDI expert.

-C

Craig @ TC-Helicon's Website

  • Registered: 2011-12-06
  • Posts: 32

Re: Need help with VoiceLive Rack MIDI appplications

The older TC units such as the Voice works and Voice One "Do" supply power to the MIDI F.S. Controller. I am currently using one of these units specifically for that purpose. The Voice LIve Rack does not. I believe that this is due to a different power supply used by the VLR which uses a transformer type cord and operates at a lower voltage as compared to the other units. To answer the question of the member who posted earlier, Yes, you have to spend the extra cash for the Footswitch Controller in addition to the Boss pedal.

Mojo

  • Registered: 2011-08-09
  • Posts: 47

Re: Need help with VoiceLive Rack MIDI appplications

Hey mojohand,

What are you using for a MIDI Footswitch Controller? Is this a FS controller that might usually be dedicated to another piece of gear such as a guitar amp or effects unit such as something from Digitech or other manufacturer?

I'm used to MIDI data on pins 4 and 5 of the 5 pin DIN connector and not aware of anything else in connector.
Standard MIDI Pinout Connections

Last edited by Mark48 (2012-02-26 14:40:09)

  • Registered: 2011-12-06
  • Posts: 32

Re: Need help with VoiceLive Rack MIDI appplications

Hey Mark,

I'm using a product made by MIDI Solutuions called the "Footswitch Controller". It is a converter which allows a standard 1/4" momentary foot pedal such as the Boss FS-5U to trigger a MIDI message to the VoiceLive Rack via a standard 5 pin Midi cable. The way it works is you store a custom MIDI command file into the controller via a computer. Then when you press the footswitch this triggers the command. It works great, except that the VLR does not supply power to the controller as do some of TC's older rack units. However, MIDI Solutions does offer a power adapter for this purpose. I just use the Voiceworks Rack as a  power source since I already had it. Look up MIDI Solutions on the Web for a list of great products. Also their support team is awesome! Speak to John Fast if you can. I was having issues writing the MIDI file so he did it for me at no charge. If you have any other questions let me know. I can send you photos of my setup if needed. just send me your email address. BTW, you will also need an interface such as the "MIDISport UNO" from M-Audio in order to transfer the MIDI file from your computer to the controller. This only has to be done once unless you change your command. I only use this for momentary control of harmonies so I never change it. They make other products which I believe may store more commands. I just didn't need more than one.

Good Luck,
Mojo

  • Registered: 2011-08-09
  • Posts: 47

Re: Need help with VoiceLive Rack MIDI appplications

Hey that's a neat little box!! MIDI Solutions Foot Switch

Did some Googling and I see how it gets powered from a MIDI out port. Below is a link to a schematic that shows basic MIDI hardware wiring.
http://www.midi.org/techspecs/electrispec.php

In Figure 1 there is shown a MIDI OUT connector. To pin 4 of this connector there is +5 vdc internally supplied from the host device through a 220 ohm resistor relative to the ground return on pin 2. It is this +5vdc that can power an external device, but may depend on the current draw of the device. I would assume the current draw to operate the MIDI Solutions Foot Switch is within the MIDI specification and should normally be OK, but no guarantee with that.

In your case presently the +5 vdc is supplied to MIDI Solutions Foot Switch from the MIDI OUT of pin 4(+5vdc) and pin 2(ground) of your Voice Works unit. On your VL Rack this 5vdc needs to exist to be able to provide a current loop source to operate an Opto-Isolator LED at the MIDI IN of a MIDI data receiving device. As Craig had suggested make sure the USB MIDI is disabled and the MIDI OUT port is enabled. This should ensure that the +5vdc is present.

I did take a few moments to measure a couple of pieces of MIDI gear I have. They all had a voltage present at the MIDI OUT pin 4 connection. However one device only had about 3.3vdc and according to MIDI Solutions this may not be enough to operate the footswitch. The MIDI Solutions Foot Switch is shown to need 3.5vdc to operate properly. Perhaps the VL Rack voltage does not meet this criteria.

Roland DR-880 3.3vdc (not sure why this is what it is, but does work connected MIDI devices OK. 3.3vdc is a common voltage for CMOS logic devices(?))
Roland XP-60  5.0vdc
Alesis SR-16  5.0vdc

If Craig is still listening, perhaps he could have his engineers check....
- the MIDI OUT connector voltage at pin 4 relative to ground is at or around +5vdc
- check that the MIDI OUT pin 2 is internally connected to ground. There should only be one ground connection between MIDI devices to prevent ground loops. Usually the MIDI OUT pin 2 is grounded and MIDI IN pin 2 is not connected inside a device.

I do have a MIDISport UNO, but prefer using the MIDI IN's/OUT's on a M-Audio Interface card in the computer.

  • From: Victoria, BC
  • Registered: 2011-07-25
  • Posts: 2,177

Re: Need help with VoiceLive Rack MIDI appplications

Heya,

As far as I can glean from what the engineers told me, a lot of TCE/H stuff uses chassis ground for the pin2, since it provides better signal/noise etc.

In some cases, there's a 33ohm (from memory so don't quote me) resistor between the chassis ground at pin2 and the device ground, which may allow enough potential difference to power a device.

Basically the jist is, give whatever device you want a shot. You're not likely to harm anything if there's not enough juice to power the device up.

-Craig

Craig @ TC-Helicon's Website

  • Pedro
  • VC New Member
  • Offline
  • Registered: 2012-01-24
  • Posts: 8

Re: Need help with VoiceLive Rack MIDI appplications

Ciao to everybody
I have a similar problem. I connected the VoiceRack to my motif xs set in song mode via midi cable. Program change works and also volume control but the Harmony on off doesn't work. I set cc 110=0 (on) and cc110=1 (off).
Any idea about the reason of that?

Pedro

  • Pedro
  • VC New Member
  • Offline
  • Registered: 2012-01-24
  • Posts: 8

Re: Need help with VoiceLive Rack MIDI appplications

Hi
sorry, I have to correct myself.
System works. I was in error because the display doesn't change according to the midi CC

Pedro

  • From: Victoria, BC
  • Registered: 2011-07-25
  • Posts: 2,177

Re: Need help with VoiceLive Rack MIDI appplications

Hi Pedro,

Have you checked to make sure that the CC channel on both devices is set the same and that you're not filtering CC's in the settings?

Cheers,
Craig

Craig @ TC-Helicon's Website

  • Pedro
  • VC New Member
  • Offline
  • Registered: 2012-01-24
  • Posts: 8

Re: Need help with VoiceLive Rack MIDI appplications

Hi Craig
thanks for your reply.
Yes, CC channel is the same and no filter is inserted.
System works as I told previously. The only thing is that VoiceRack doesn't indicate on the display the Harmony on-off according to the cc command. This led me in error.
Pedro

  • From: Victoria, BC
  • Registered: 2011-07-25
  • Posts: 2,177

Re: Need help with VoiceLive Rack MIDI appplications

Hi Pedro,

Oh I see! I misunderstood there and thought that the CC wasn't working. So, the effect block is correctly turning on and off, but the light on the Harmony button doesn't change?

If you turn on the Harmony manually, does the light come on? If you send the OFF CC after that, does the light turn off or stay on?

Cheers,
Craig

Craig @ TC-Helicon's Website

  • From: United Kingdom
  • Registered: 2011-12-23
  • Posts: 311

Re: Need help with VoiceLive Rack MIDI appplications

Hi Pedro,

Just reading the Midi Implementation of Rack Manual

CC110 with a value between 0 and 63  turns harmony off
      and a value between 64 and 127 turns harmony on

As reading your post above, your sending either 0 or 1, which are both OFF messages

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  • Pedro
  • VC New Member
  • Offline
  • Registered: 2012-01-24
  • Posts: 8

Re: Need help with VoiceLive Rack MIDI appplications

Hi thanks a lot for your support,
you are right, I wrong writing my post but I followed correctly the instructions on the manual: I put 0 and 127 in order to set the effect from off to on.
Everything works correct except for the led indication on the harmony button. I saw that also pushing manually not always the indication is correct. I'll put the device to the vendor for a control. Another thing that happened yesterday night was that when turning on, the display was completely "white", without any indication on the display. I turned off and then on again and the display showed normally all the indications. May be that is a firmware problem?

  • From: Victoria, BC
  • Registered: 2011-07-25
  • Posts: 2,177

Re: Need help with VoiceLive Rack MIDI appplications

Hi Pedro,

It sounds like the box might be behaving strangely. You might want to contact support, especially if it's still under warranty, and have them figure out if it might be best to have the box looked at by a service center.

www.tc-helicon.com/support

Cheers,
Craig

Craig @ TC-Helicon's Website