Chiropractic treatment (Page 1 of 2)

I had a car wreck in 89 that caused damage to my neck, shoulders, etc. Took physical therapy 3 months several times a week, twice for these issues. Didnt do anything but take celebrex and try to get exercise after that until last year when i just couldnt take it aymore. Have TMJ also, moderately severe degenerative disk disease, arithritis, sublaxations, spurs, crepidus, a herniated disk. SOOO, i was a mess. 1st thing the chiropractor said to me was that my neck posture made me use my neck in an ostrich like manner and that while he hadnt done any studies on it, he would guess that indeed that kind of tilt would put pressure on the voice box. Also, the TMJ is related to sublaxation of the atlas bone (the one at the top of your spine) and when its off, your tm-joints can get stressed, irritated, inflammed. Once those get back in line i find the tmj, (which Mark can probably attest to can be excruciating) went away. It does not take a WHLOE lot for my body to slip back into the "postural habits" its been doing since the late 80s though, so if something slips out, i do go the chiropractor, and maintenance wise every two weeks at this time. ANd yes I DO totally believe my breath control, the amount of strain i put on my vocal cords, etc has improved, but i still need robert, jaimes and melissas courses to learn mo!!   Hope this helps!!

It would take me to pour cold water on everything.

I read several books on backcare--everything from branded therapies, to physical therapists, orthopedic surgeons, chiropractor, acupuncture etc.   The best one was written by a chiropractor (can't recall the title). 

In it, he says, if one has back pain (other than broken back or major injuries), major scientific studies have shown that none of these are practices are much more effective than doing nothing, in the long term.   All of these do provide some type of quick relief.  Of course, there's variance in any of these--some people do respond to chiropractric, some to physical therapy, etc.  And vice-versa--some don't.

If you have scolosis, instead of someone cracking your back regularly, try first, a heel lift on your shorter side or uneven orthotics.  Then, lift up your rib cage and exercise and possibly yoga.  If you have severe scolosis, I imagine it will be nearly impossible to get your spine to align properly.  If you have mild scolosis, I don't know if the chiropractic will help (and scientific studies seem to suggest it doesn't help much in the long-term), but it seems that just balancing your feet and hips with orthotic devices will help.

Something like 95% of the population do not have a straight back.

My upcoming website, ZenSinging.org, will describe methods for backcare and improvement, including scolosis, without having to go to a healthcare practioner.  I learned most of these from the books I read, and developed a few .

Last edited by WebAndNet (2008-06-23 14:36:11)

Elnico,  Yes, chiropractic treatment can be very beneficial to you, however, be VERY careful on who you choose, and the technique they use as well, and how THEY were trained. Yes, it's as important as choosing the proper vocal coach. I visit the chiro three times a week, and I have an excellent one. Though in the past, I have used others (when mine is on vacation), without good results. And conversly, when I travel, my chiropractor loans me a booklet of those trained in the same technique he uses, just in case...
A little background: I'm a retired police chief, and was injured on duty 9/29/94. Since then, I've had one lumbar surgery and need more, but am not doing so until absolutely necessary, simply because of the fact that I've had five cervical spinal surgeries, over the years, - four anterior procedures and one posterior (9/04/07), the latter making me worse than I was before. A considerable pain in the neck muscles, and very tightened shoulder blades. I have instrumentation both in the front and back of the cervical spine from C-3 through T-1. Needless to say, I have very limited motion.
At a younger age, I was in a number of bands as a keyboardist and vocalist. Of course, becoming a parent changes one's priorities. Don't take this wrong, I love my family. Anyway, with the unexpected  "loss" of my wife last year, and children grown and on their own, I re-kindled my interests in my love of music, beginning with the keyboards. I have many doctors, needless to say, and when I mentioned  "vocals", I was told to forget it (forever) by a couple of them, due to significant scar tissue and my range of mobility. Of course, I was also told I could cause further damage due to a "lot of unnecessary movement"  ??? Though it was not my primary intention to prove the doctors wrong, it was my passionate desire to do what I love. All things considered, I chose to continue on my endeavor, and not only does chiropractic treatment help, I was encouraged by my chiro ( also a musician) to "go for it" not only for the physical reasons, but also for my emotional health.
I admit, I had a difficult time at first, but began to make gains, but needed further assistance with my vocal technique.
I bought Roger Love's book first, and while it helps, and I improved, I needed more. Along came Robert  (MANY thanks to him for all of his assistance to me), this forum, Jamie V's book, "Raise Your Voice",  all the excellent instructors here, and the other contributers on this forum, both professional and otherwise. (Yes, Robert, I will be purchasing "Pillars"). 
While I know I have a long way to go yet, and a lot of work, not only has my vocal abilities improved, but my chiro has noticed that it is so much easier for him to re-align my thoracic spine, my posture has improved, and my pain has decreased also. (note that due to all the surgeries, he can no longer adjust my neck). Obviously, he knew the reason why, because of the increased movement (exercise). Don't tell him how much I "get into it"  : -) ; He'd probably give me h*** !  I put a lot of emotion and passion into what I "do", and perhaps overdo it sometimes. Especially, the songs I composed for my wife"... I miss her very much ! (My apologies, I got off the subject - I'm quite the talker).
Additionally, I also get a MEDICAL massage at least twice monthly, and it helps also, so you may wish to consider that also. I should also add that as a result of the spinal injury, I have carpal tunnel
syndrome, and at times, recurrent problems with ear pain, due to nerve damage. The medical massage helps with the carpal tunnel, though it is a quite painful experience. The therapist also taught me how to work on that, too. It involves separating the muscles that run down the forearm, and I mean FORCEFULLY - OUCH...  As far as the ear pain, I just ordered the VAM (Vocal Acoustic Monitor). WOW - and at the price , it's well worth it.
I realize that I got off the subject a bit, but felt the need to cover all the bases, in the event of future complications, or for anyone else out there with these impairments.
One other quick note: Don't pre-occupy yourself with some of the terms used for chiro treatment - My chiropractor has always referred to it (at least to me) as "Let's bust ya' up" ! (but we've been friends for many years).  HA HA  But I'm fortunate to have found an excellent one, so be careful who you choose. If you need any other info, feel free to post, and I'll answer ASAP, or email me at rockaholic@hughes.net
I wouldn't normally put my email address out there so readily, but if I can be of some help.....
Elcino - hope this has been of some help to you...and Best of Luck to You !
My $20.00 worth - I know, I know - I talk WAY TOO MUCH....

Thanks Mark and Rychemaiden

Webandnet I have done a bit of reading into the benefits of chiro and it seems to me one of those practices which can be over hyped to oblivion, and unfortunately this can overshadow the real benefits it can provide. I wouldn't be surprised at those statistics you mentioned, I'm sure most people might have a leg slightly shorter or posture problems or fused vertebrae or whatever but it will not cause any major problems for them, or if they do then chiro may or may not help.

In saying that, my personal experience has been positive and after trying a couple of different people, I ended finding a guy who's also an Oesteopath and who didn't promise that all my problems will be solved if I see him three times a week lol. I'm seeing him once a month at the moment, and soon to be seeing him once every two months.

He actually gave me some heel lifts for my right leg, and it seems to have improved my scoliosis. Even without the lifts in, my shoulders are the same height whereas before my left shoulder was about two inches lower than my right. 

I'll look forward to seeing your website.

Nightprowler rock on man, I think true singers will sing "no matter what" in the end! I know too many people these days who won't sing because there's "no gigs", not enough money paid, the planets aren't aligned, etc. If you're out there doing it the way you are after experiencing those kind of physical bumps and life changes then more power to you.

I too had chiropractice treatment and I have to agree with Nightprowler...Be careful. I would never point the finger because I had a great chiropractor, but I had some problems, had some treatments, it got worse and I hjad to have surgery...My chiropractor noticed it right off the bat and we mainly did muscle manipulation terapy to relieve the pain. All I am saying is find one that is caring, believes in their field and comes highly recommended....and do yoga...BTW- My surgery is what caused me to develop my Vocal Stress Release program;)

hi guys

nightprowler: petty rocks so do you hey i've got an external tens device, and the durn thing helps when nothing else does ....:)?

jaime: is that a "Vocal stress release Program" incorporated into your book, "Raise your Voice"??

Darrison, I remember reading a much earlier post where you mentioned you had cancer and so meant to ask about it.....geesh....you and nightprowler = inspiration, overcomers....

I tried finding the specific mentioned book I read written by the chiropractor.   Might be this book.  http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/ … lthwatcher   Inside Chiropractic: A Patient's Guide by Samuel Hoomla (D.C.?)

The basic idea he says is this.   The spine is actually very strong; so, unless one has a true injury or abnormal growth (not that common), it is designed for health (shouldn't be messed around with much).   To treat the spine for, in particular common backaches, requires a self-maintenance (exercise program), not healthcare provider treatment.

The numerous studies the chiropractor refers to involve where chiropractic, acupuncture, physical therapist, medical doctors, etc. treatments are compared to doing nothing.   The result was these are at best slightly better at providing long-term results.   Several of these can provide short term pain reduction.

What I wrote does not contradict any the good results you are receiving (though I probably misued the word cracking).   You are probably getting very good pain relief, as the mentioned chiropractor says short term relief is definitely provided by all these type of healthcare practioners. 

Regarding Osteopaths and their spinal adjustments, there is some evidence that cranial sacro subluxation has some long-term effects, but most treatments don't.   Again, short term only-- an osteopath told me this.

To get to singing, I'm reading currently Voice and the Alexander Technique.   In here, it says, in the first three chapters, the balance of the head on the spine is a major observational diagnostic technique.  (And since cranial sacro subluxation affects the balancing of the head, the osteopath and Alexander may be saying very similar things as well)

Hence, I don't see any discrepency yet.   People saying chiropractor helps them with pain-reduction short term (but they haven't tried what happens if they tried long term without); studies that says only self-maintenance really helps backaches, Alexander Technique that says--proper head balance is a good diagnostic tool to determine if one's body (and spine is in alignment), osteopaths treatment, etc....

However, despite all these commonalities, the major scientific studies show that none of the healthcare providers do significantly better on common backaches than doing nothing, long term.   And, there are innumerable books that do say self-maintenance prevent the majority of these healthcare provider visits.

So, if you want to sing better, do these self-maintenance things.  I have entire sections on my upcoming website on this topic.

If you know of physical non-facial, self-maintenace techniques to improve singing through posture changes, I would love to know about these.   More than mouth twills, fluttering of the lips, etc.   What I'm suggesting is basic posture changes techniques, methods, equipment.  Thanks!

Last edited by WebAndNet (2008-06-27 13:23:07)

In addition, try some of the soft-gel foot pads ($10) at Walmart.

Jamie,

I, too, have a tens unit, but it didn't help at all in the past. Perhaps, I should get it out of the closet, dust it off and try it again. I haven't tried it after my last surgery, so perhaps it will help. Though I use your Vocal Stress Relief program, and it has benefited me, there are still some days when, I have some difficulties.

Since your surgery, do you still have any complications from time to time ?

Many thanks for publishing Raise Your Voice and sharing your knowledge and expertise. I honestly don't believe I would have progressed as far as I have without it.

On another note: I know - you advised against it -but I STILL can't break the glass..., as much as I've improved my skills.... what am I doing wrong ? Yeah, "I'm crazy like that, too..."  Just ask Byron from VAM...

Rychemaiden,

Definitely get Jamie's book if you can. The Vocal Stress Relief Program has helped me a lot. Chapter Nineteen, page 235. With the purchase, you also get to access the members section which provides you with extra benefits too numerous to mention, and also, downloadable vocal exercises, etc. It's a 120 Mb (compressed) file. I had to wait until 3 AM to download it as my ISP only permits downloads of 160 Mb daily, (and unlimited between 3 AM and 6 AM).

I also read your past post, and from your experience, I think you should add yourself into your equation. You've been through quite a lot yourself, and are living your dreams, too. Odd, none of us are physicians, but somehow, after all we've experienced, we've become familiar with all the medical  terms. 

Yeah, Petty rocks....first time I missed them since the 70's. But I'm NOT missing Styx on Aug. 9...
Two tickets UP FRONT and CENTER !!! They put on a fantastic performance...

Darrison,

I'm somewhat of a newcomer here. I've read many of your posts, but had no idea what you have been through. Within ONE week...Talk about dedication and commitment after all of that !

My Best to you.... Keep Rockin, my friend !

Hey, any of you pros worked with T. Shaw or have an "inside track" ?  I'd give up my "58" for the chance to do one "piece" on that stage, or in the audience with Shaw....He's the only one I've seen that does that except for David Byron (many years ago), and myself.... (Many years ago, too   )
I'd but another "58" the next day... HA

Jamie,

Thank you for your response - all along I thought you had you had ALL of your issues resolved. I don't know how many levels you had fused, (or if you had an anterior or posterior procedure), but if you've seen my other posts, I'm fused from C-3 through T-1, with instrumentation front and back. I also had a total laminectomy during my posterior procedure (which I was NOT told about prior to my surgery). Needless to say, I was quite upset, and I'll leave it at that. But I would caution anyone when a posterior procedure is mentioned. It made me significantly worse. With that said, I've found nothing to help me, when I first wake up. Only "time"... I'm not worth a d*** until the afternoon.  I'd simply like to add, for all of the other subscribers, that your VSR program as outlined in your book helps me 99% of the time. Then I'm ready to "jam"...

This topic seems to have "exploded", but someone made a comment about "guarantees". My first surgeon made none, and after three anterior (allegraft) fusions, all failed. In fact, after the last one, of the screws loosened, tore up another disk, backed into my esophagus, and nearly killed me. I'd like to caution others about that procedure, also. I sought out a different surgeon who did guarantee me results, (???), and though the anterior procedure (2006) helped a lot, the posterior procedure (2007), literally was the worst choice I made.

I don't want to "flood" the forum with this topic any longer, however, if anyone would like additional input or advice, feel free to email me at rockaholic@hughes.net  I'll answer ASAP.  I've done my very best to help others all of my adult life and I'm not about to change. Simply put, "That's ME!" If I can help others who have these difficulties, or may be facing them, you have my email address. I've been through just about "everything" - many, many, other procedures that relates to my spinal injury. Some painful and unnecessary and other just plain useless.
After all, it's my belief that it is what this forum is all about - helping others. I know it (the forum) has sure been a Godsend to me in MANY aspects.

Kindly pardon any typo errors....

Thank you....
"Nightprowler"

Jaime, I didnt realize you had issues to overcome too..

and Nightprowler,

Jaimes book is on my "get it" list, right after I finish Mannings singing success program, then Luntes and Cross' materials WOOHOO!!

and thanks for the comment, guess I'm kinda stubborn too

STYX!! WOW? !!!! Hubby and I just saw Maiden .. had 13th row seats (i'm only superstitions when I wanna be , best concert EVER.....

ew there is a "Rock the Bayou" thing going on here in Houston this year, old astroworld complex, three days, at least 40 artists, you guys gotta check it out!!!   http://www.rockthebayou.com/

and another EW!!

Gotz me a "create pedal" on layaway, got a gig on the 18th though so i think i'll pull it before then so I can play with it ... heehee

Hugz to all

Last edited by Rychemaiden (2008-07-02 06:18:02)

RycheMaiden - The only people I know that don't have issues to overcome - ARE DEAD and who knows if there is an afterlife? but I'm sure there would be some there also lol

Rychemaiden,

Great !!! Getting the "Create" pedal. You'll love it. I have it also, as well as the "Correct" . Combine them, and all I can say is WOW !!!

Just got a good deal on a new Kustom Profile System Two yesterday... Kicks butt !!!  I was running my vocals and pedals through my keyboard amp, and it sounded good, but what a difference now.
But "being me", I can't leave things alone. I linked both the Amp and the PA together late last night, and even though I'm in a rural area, I'll probably get kicked out of town... :cool   It's "Slammin" !
Hmmmm......wonder who would be interested in buying my house if that happens ?

Can't wait to get the T.C. Harmony pedal next. Also, got the VAM, (Vocal Acoustic Monitor - which Jamie recommends).  I definitely recommend it, too. Cuts out all the "background noise" so you can hear yourself. And having hearing problems from time to time due to nerve damage, it's just the "ticket" for me. Another awesome product and you simply can't beat the price....

Rock On...

Nightprowler (Adolph)

Rychemaiden,

I'm not saying the Correct is a better option than the Double. It was my priority in buying them in that order.  I'm going to purchase the Double myself, as soon as I can. I want to get all three, myself. Good choice, though, getting the Correct first. Here's the link to the "pedals". http:www.tc-helicon.com/ Got to "Products" and you'll find all T C products there, and all the specs. Happy Shopping 

Yeah, Guitar Center loves me, too. I was there last night, after my doctor's visit in the city (Buffalo).
The Guitar Center is only ten minutes away, and as such, going to that particular doctor isn't VERY HEALTHY for my bank account     After last night's purchase, I ended up on their VIP list. Not quite sure what that entails. Though I know they like it when they see me walk in the store.

Happy Fourth to you, too....

Nightprowler