Re: Differences in falsetto and head voice.

(Martin & Beyondtenor, I believe this is the answer to your question, according to Mary Beth... she would seem to suggest that incomplete closure in the chest voice is NOT referred to as "falsetto"... I would tend to agree)...

Yes, I understand and I actually use "flageolet" in my pedagogy to describe the highest head tones, but admittedly, I dont think its the best term yet... Im still developing that... These are not some invention of SLS but are common terminology in vocal pedagogy. Read Richard Miller, William Vennard, Johann Sundberg, Ingo Titze etc. Once the CT are no longer able to stretch and thin, something amazing happens called dampening, whereas the actual vibratory length of the vocal folds shorten. This happens in the extreme range of head voice for both males and females in those voices who are able to registrate in a balanced manner. Well, since Im in direct communication with Titze these days, Ill look into that. 

I am reading
Vocal Health and Pedagogy, Vol. I
Science and Assessment
Second Edition

By: Robert Thayer Sataloff, M.D., D.M.A.

http://www.pluralpublishing.com/publications_vhp1.htm

Vocal function does not always remain the same... it depends on what techniques and skills you teach. A body builder and a power lifter do not utilize the same muscular functions entirely.. they are specialists. Opera singers generally sing with a more lowered larynx, this is functionally very different then pop singers or what I teach. And pop idol singers dont usually sing with thyroidal tilt, head voice adduction and sub-glottal velocities consistent with progressive metal singers, for example. You can train the voice to do different things, to make specifically different kinds of sounds... CVT and Estill are but two schools of teaching that further confirm my point that the voice or Larynx (Estill) can be "configured" in different ways for different sounds.

Part of my challenge with the "SLS" legacy is this insistence that the voice has to homogenized, "balanced", neutral laryngeal configurations at all notes of a singer range & registers... and that this is the ideal set-up for every singer.

I invite you to view my "bridging & connecting" videos on this forum... when I sing these high velocity, sub-glottal, twangy head tones... its doesnt feel like "speech level"...

In regards to eating humble pie... I totally agree!!!  We have discussed this before on this forum... the best voice teachers today are the ones that can eat humble pie from time to time... I think I have done it myself a few times on this forum... The courage to be able to admit that your not correct on something or that you need to learn more about something is one mark of being a great voice teacher.

THE VOCALIST STUDIO
Robert J. Lunte
425.444.5053
robert@thevocaliststudio.com
www.thevocaliststudio.com/endorsements
www.myspace.com/tvsvox : www.youtube.com/roblunte

Re: Differences in falsetto and head voice.

Mary Beth,

I agree with all you have said smile

But I'll try to clarify a little bit on the "can you trancsend from falsetto to full voice or vice versa".

You are right that you can't trancsend from falsetto to another mode BUT that's only if you are holding on to the falsetto function (no TA). Otherwise it can be done:

"When transitioning from upper register to falsetto or flute register, the thyroarytenoid muscles gradually reduce their contraction to zero so that the cricothyroid muscles assume total influence over the lengthening and shortening of the vocal folds."    - Thurman

"When transitioning from falsetto or flute register to upper register, the thyroarytenoid muscles
re-engage but the cricothyroids are predominant."   - Thurman

If you very slowly engage the TA then it's possible. The same goes the other way around - if you slowly let go of the TA you'll end up in the falsetto function. It is a very difficult skill! Here is a quote about minimal TA activation just before entering the falsetto (no TA) :

"Many professional countertenors use a form of upper register when they include a minimal degree of thyroarytenoid contraction along with the degree of cricothyroid contraction, a very finetuned neuromotor skill. The perceived quality is sometimes described as upper register with a high percentage of falsetto quality “mixed in”, or as falsetto register with a small amount of upper register “mixed in” (see Howard, et al., 2001)."    - Thurman

Also transcending is much more difficult in the lower part of the voice due to some of the things mentioned in this quote:

"When singing in the lower F0 range of this register, with slackened folds and breathy quality, the subglottic air pressure must be comparatively minimal in order to avoid singing sharp. The lower F0 range in this register, therefore, has a quite limitedintensity range."    - Thurman Report

But in the higher parts of the voice transcending becomes easier because of the following:

"As F0 is increased in the falsetto/flute register coordination, optimal action by the primary adductor muscles (closers), combined with the “stretching” (lengthening) action of the cricothyroids, results in complete adduction and a fairly wide intensity range."   - Thurman

This also explains why Jaime can use the falsetto function to break glasses because in the high parts falsetto can become quite loud smile

And also I wouldn't advice  you to use the falsetto function in the "messa di voce" in the low parts. Mostly because it's so difficult that many can't do it. Instead use a breathy chest voice or breathy headvoice which sounds similar to falsetto smile

Anyone feel free to comment smile

Last edited by Martin H (2008-07-07 06:47:04)

Re: Differences in falsetto and head voice.

Martin, I like your posting... seems to support my argument and daily experience that you can move from a falsetto to a fully adducted head tone, while in the head voice on the same breath at the same moment in time... you probably have discovered that playing around with this, is an interesting way to "feel" where your head tones "sit"/placement and feel the larynx change its "set-up" in real-time as you move from a (and Im using your CVT language here...)... a "projected" posture to a tilted cartiledge... or what I sometimes call a "contracted" posture... referring the AES engagement to get into a twang.

Yet... you say you "agree with all that MB has said"... and then you go on to basically, disagree with what she said???  Also:

When Jaime breaks glass... I dont hear "falsetto function"... I dont hear an orifice or a (MB) chink in his glottis... you hear a very adducted "cut" to his sound and there are huge amounts of sub-glottal pressures to get the Decibels he needs to pull off the stunt. When I hear Jaime breaking glass... I hear a head tone that is adducted... and its not the "nice-nice" balanced stuff ... its an aggressive, twangy, face melting laser!...

In your posting, it seems your still referring to "falsetto" as a place/register, instead of a timbre... but thats fine... that circles us back to the semantics which seems like an endless vortex at this point... why dont say "adducted head tone" instead of falsetto?  Most people think of falsetto as a breathy, airy, girlish sound... which relates to the physiology that creates it... that we have discussed over and over again and everyone understands what it is... then to suddenly say that when Jaime breaks glass, he is in his falsetto... is taking us back to the same old semantic error... in my opinion.

THE VOCALIST STUDIO
Robert J. Lunte
425.444.5053
robert@thevocaliststudio.com
www.thevocaliststudio.com/endorsements
www.myspace.com/tvsvox : www.youtube.com/roblunte

Re: Differences in falsetto and head voice.

Robert,

Well I do agree with MB.....It's not possible to tanscend into full voice if you don't engage the TA.
Meaning if you hold on to the falsetto mode(no ta) you'll never reach maximum volume.

I don't know if Jaime IS using falsetto. He just talks about 'falsetto' strengthening exercise (I believe he calls it the "e scream") when mentioning the glass thing. So I assumed he used falsetto. Because the higher you go in your range the more powerfull your falsetto can become smile

I'm actually not personally using the term "falsetto" at all. I was just stating earlier that IF falsetto is a timbre then why shouldn't it be called falsetto in the chest voice range aswell. I almost only use CVT terms! But it tends to confuse and upset people if I use them;) And the function of "falsetto" as described by the Voice Scientists is also mentioned in the CVT-book. So to me I consider "falsetto" to be a certain vocal cord function wich can have different sound colours and intensities depending on where you are in your range:)

Last edited by Martin H (2008-07-07 07:49:51)

Re: Differences in falsetto and head voice.

Very interesting discussion...shame I'm coming in a bit late but since I'm here thought I would throw my view out there.

Like has been stated, terminology is all about communication between student and teacher. As long as each knows what terminology the other is using then there won't be a problem. You can call it bangers and mash if you want.
Jaime mentioned about having trouble with students who have come from SLS. He said something about a student coming to him saying he was in head voice where he was using what Jaime calls falsetto. It is perfectly reasonable to assume that the student was using head voice in the SLS terminolgy but if you then say 'no that is falsetto' it will confuse the student because they, coming from SLS, will automatically think they are in a breathy tone. As long as it is clarified what terminolgy you are using it's fine.
I come from an SLS background and I use similar terminolgy. The only term I don't use from the SLS school of thought is falsetto. I see this, as has been proposed here, as a complete lack of thyroarytenoid action. Using this term, you can't 'connect' to chest because bridging from chest to head (or falsetto as Jaime would call it) requires smooth muscle transfer from thyroarytenoid dominant muscle action to cricothyroid dominant muscle action (very basically). If you try to take falsetto (lack of thyroarytenoid action) down into chest, you will require a very sudden increase in thyroarytnoid action in order to get a chest tone and that will manifest itself as a vocal 'break'.
That being said, if we use an 'SLS falsetto' which could be considered a breathy head tone, then you can connect it to chest as it is only the adductor muscles that are not engaged. As long as the thyroartyenoid muscle is smoothly letting go beyond the passagio as you ascend you will not get a perceived 'break'.

As a side note, that Thurman paper has been cited alot here. Whilst it is an interesting resource, I am not aware of it ever being peer reviewed. It is based on a presentation that was given. Whilst I don't doubt it's integrity, it is VERY important that when discussing something like this from a scientific point of view (which this thread turned into) to make a note that it has not been peer reviewed. If anyone knows any different though,

~Ben

Those who are afraid to fall never fly

Re: Differences in falsetto and head voice.

Thanks guys!

We are on the same falsetto track. The problem being that we can't do demonstrations to explain what was meant. Oversimplified, I refer to Falsetto as a functoin lacking in TA involvement. However, if it is merely defined as a breathy tone - anyone can be singing falsetto all over the place. Thanks to the previous two posters for adding in information  that I assumed was common knowledge. My bad smile

My appeared contradiction in that falsetto can not connect to chest voice but one can subltey transition from falsetto to a more connected head tone is explained in Open Mic's posting. Thank you for explaining it more fully. I need to save that one. In fact, I can demonstrate all of the functions above as well.

In Thurman's paper - I get the feeling that some of the definitions he is using and the context of his discussion would clarify the quotes. I am not familiar with Thurman and those quotes "feel" a little out of context - but I can't discuss it further without reading the paper in its entirety. Something is not quite correct in there but I can't put my finger on it.

As for SLS - Seth Riggs is brilliant in his teaching without even knowing why much of the time. That is where he and I had  butt heads many times. He is a singing savant in many ways. He defines himself as an old bel canto teacher that had to adapt his teaching to all sorts of styles in LA. As I have said in other places, perhaps Seth Rigg's greatest legacy to vocal teaching was his willingness to accept all styles of music into his studio and give those singers a way to preserve their voice and deliver their music within their chosen genre. He never forced his own love of Classical music or theatre on to them but met them where they were at.  He opened the door  half a century ago for forum's such as Voice Council and others to embrace all styles of singing as equally relevent. Though I parted paths with SLS a few years ago, my respect for Seth as a teacher and singer has not diminished.

Having said that - I am much more aggressive in my application of technique than a bel canto approach would call for. Brett Manning, Billy Purnell  and other former Sethie's would probably say the same thing about their application. Therefore aligning my teaching and my results with clients of other singers in SLS would be absurd. (Nor did my tenure with SLS wholly define my own teaching and vocal pedagogy.)
Balanced registration is the foundation of all good singing because it gives the singer a place to fall back to and reference so that they understand when they make stylistic adjustments how to do it and what the vocal cost will be. I treat balanced registration like "home base" - the singer can always run the other bases, hit a foul ball or hit a home run, but they have to know where home base is to make it count. (Rough analogy, but we will go with it pre-tea this morning.)



Tra la la la la

Mary Beth

Mary Beth Felker
The Voice Project
The new voice in artist development....
http://www.thevoiceproject.com
503.284.9488/Portland or 206.465.4536/Seattle
Skype: TVPPro

Re: Differences in falsetto and head voice.

I would like to add that if you take a falsetto (the lack of TA involvement) and add chest coordination (as I would see it, includes adductory muscles and TA) you can smoothly go from the falsetto the head voice, and we know the head voice can smoothly transition to a chest voice. Muscles don't have to be completely engaged.


And, if a falsetto sound is produced by a function, then how in the world could I do Messa Di Voice' and smoothly transcend from falsetto to full voice? Sorry, there is no flip for me or the hundreds of other students to whom I've taught this exercise. If I can do it when I call falsetto a sound, will I suddenly not be able to do it when I call falsetto a function?

You go from head voice to chest voice and back, which are sounds based on functions, in a smooth manner. The sounds that we hear a by-products of the configuration we use.

Let me say it this way. I classify the voice as having two coordinations: Chest Coordination (which includes having the shortest possible folds from TA involvement, a fully engaged Vocalis muscle, and complete usage of the adductory musculature) and Falsetto Coordination (the longest, and thinnest folds possible, a complete lack of TA involvement, no Vocalis involvement, and no adductory musculature involvement. It's purely CT type involvement, no medial compression either). Every "configuration" you have (fry, chest, mix, head, whistle, falsetto) is based on how you put the two coordinations together. To sing lighter and higher, you lean more towards the falsetto coordination. To sing fully, and lower, you add more chest coordination. For the highest notes, when the folds damp, you take the falsetto coordination and add a ton of medial compression. However, the by-product sound you hear for each configuration is put into a register, or sound quality. Those would be fry, chest, mix, head, whistle, and falsetto, respectfully. Sound is just a by-product.

- Josh

Domine Deus Omnipotens in cuius manu omnis victoria constistit.
Reach Beyond Everything... and you might find more than you were looking for in the first place.
Lean not to thine own understanding.

Re: Differences in falsetto and head voice.

BeyondTenor wrote:

I would like to add that if you take a falsetto (the lack of TA involvement) and add chest coordination (as I would see it, includes adductory muscles and TA) you can smoothly go from the falsetto the head voice, and we know the head voice can smoothly transition to a chest voice. Muscles don't have to be completely engaged.

Exactly! You don't go directly from falsetto to chest coordination - instead you go falsetto > head > chest coordination smile

Re: Differences in falsetto and head voice.

Martin, not to be "against" you, because I'm not (I know how you feel about voice), but I do think the way you quoted the Thurman paper takes from the context. I know you wanted those specific points for reasons, but without the supporting information around the quote, you're losing a good bit of context and losing things in translation. That's why I linked to the whole thing, and then quoted a bigger chunk instead of just the sentence I was seeing.


Oh, Robert, had I known you talk to Titze, I wouldn't have been looking through his papers!

- Josh

Domine Deus Omnipotens in cuius manu omnis victoria constistit.
Reach Beyond Everything... and you might find more than you were looking for in the first place.
Lean not to thine own understanding.

Re: Differences in falsetto and head voice.

Yes you are right (also MB). I will advice people to read the sections on "falsetto" and "transitioning from upper register to falsetto register", so they can draw their own conclusions because the paper doesn't directly talks about the "messa di voce". smile

Re: Differences in falsetto and head voice.

Cool, I'll check out the papers. Also want to say that I am not against SLS, I just don't know much about it;) My studetns are just individuals who say this or that. So, it is just the misunderstanding in terminology;)

Jaime Vendera
JaimeVendera.com
theultimatevocalworkout.com

Re: Differences in falsetto and head voice.

Martin H wrote:

Robert,

Well I do agree with MB.....It's not possible to tanscend into full voice if you don't engage the TA.
Meaning if you hold on to the falsetto mode(no ta) you'll never reach maximum volume.

I don't know if Jaime IS using falsetto. He just talks about 'falsetto' strengthening exercise (I believe he calls it the "e scream") when mentioning the glass thing. So I assumed he used falsetto. Because the higher you go in your range the more powerfull your falsetto can become smile

I'm actually not personally using the term "falsetto" at all. I was just stating earlier that IF falsetto is a timbre then why shouldn't it be called falsetto in the chest voice range aswell. I almost only use CVT terms! But it tends to confuse and upset people if I use them;) And the function of "falsetto" as described by the Voice Scientists is also mentioned in the CVT-book. So to me I consider "falsetto" to be a certain vocal cord function wich can have different sound colours and intensities depending on where you are in your range:)

Martin, I did not say you wouldn't engage the TA?  I didnt say you would "hold" the falsetto mode?  The higher you go in your range the more powerfull your falsetto becomes?  really?...humm.  To say that using CVT terms upsets people is a false statement, thats never been the issue with you Martin.

THE VOCALIST STUDIO
Robert J. Lunte
425.444.5053
robert@thevocaliststudio.com
www.thevocaliststudio.com/endorsements
www.myspace.com/tvsvox : www.youtube.com/roblunte

Re: Differences in falsetto and head voice.

A misunderstanding that happens a lot. lol. Though, I can look back at the SLS I was taught and it makes sense. It just didn't until it was said in a way I understood it.


Robert, he was referring to the coordination as described above, as he used it from the Thurman papers. It's like saying the higher you go in head voice, the more powerful it becomes. It's all in context.

Last edited by BeyondTenor (2008-07-07 11:06:26)

- Josh

Domine Deus Omnipotens in cuius manu omnis victoria constistit.
Reach Beyond Everything... and you might find more than you were looking for in the first place.
Lean not to thine own understanding.

Re: Differences in falsetto and head voice.

Mary Beth Felker wrote:

Thanks guys!

We are on the same falsetto track. The problem being that we can't do demonstrations to explain what was meant. Oversimplified, I refer to Falsetto as a functoin lacking in TA involvement. However, if it is merely defined as a breathy tone - anyone can be singing falsetto all over the place. Thanks to the previous two posters for adding in information  that I assumed was common knowledge. My bad smile

My appeared contradiction in that falsetto can not connect to chest voice but one can subltey transition from falsetto to a more connected head tone is explained in Open Mic's posting. Thank you for explaining it more fully. I need to save that one. In fact, I can demonstrate all of the functions above as well.

In Thurman's paper - I get the feeling that some of the definitions he is using and the context of his discussion would clarify the quotes. I am not familiar with Thurman and those quotes "feel" a little out of context - but I can't discuss it further without reading the paper in its entirety. Something is not quite correct in there but I can't put my finger on it.

As for SLS - Seth Riggs is brilliant in his teaching without even knowing why much of the time. That is where he and I had  butt heads many times. He is a singing savant in many ways. He defines himself as an old bel canto teacher that had to adapt his teaching to all sorts of styles in LA. As I have said in other places, perhaps Seth Rigg's greatest legacy to vocal teaching was his willingness to accept all styles of music into his studio and give those singers a way to preserve their voice and deliver their music within their chosen genre. He never forced his own love of Classical music or theatre on to them but met them where they were at.  He opened the door  half a century ago for forum's such as Voice Council and others to embrace all styles of singing as equally relevent. Though I parted paths with SLS a few years ago, my respect for Seth as a teacher and singer has not diminished.

Having said that - I am much more aggressive in my application of technique than a bel canto approach would call for. Brett Manning, Billy Purnell  and other former Sethie's would probably say the same thing about their application. Therefore aligning my teaching and my results with clients of other singers in SLS would be absurd. (Nor did my tenure with SLS wholly define my own teaching and vocal pedagogy.)
Balanced registration is the foundation of all good singing because it gives the singer a place to fall back to and reference so that they understand when they make stylistic adjustments how to do it and what the vocal cost will be. I treat balanced registration like "home base" - the singer can always run the other bases, hit a foul ball or hit a home run, but they have to know where home base is to make it count. (Rough analogy, but we will go with it pre-tea this morning.)



Tra la la la la

Mary Beth

... Ill go with and teach home runs.

THE VOCALIST STUDIO
Robert J. Lunte
425.444.5053
robert@thevocaliststudio.com
www.thevocaliststudio.com/endorsements
www.myspace.com/tvsvox : www.youtube.com/roblunte

Re: Differences in falsetto and head voice.

I think this discussion is becoming productive again... there is some good stuff here.. thanks team for sticking in there to help share what you understand... anytime you can serve up some research or articles, lets do it... its a complicated lot... we struggle with understanding the science, interpreting different semantics and working to get away from one doctrine serves all applications/clients... which is hard to do sometimes when you have an affinity for one... but on the last point, I think this community does ok with it... this discussion has provoked thought for me... and allowed me to spare with Mary Beth a little bit, which is always fun...

www.thevocaliststudio.com/inthestudio

THE VOCALIST STUDIO
Robert J. Lunte
425.444.5053
robert@thevocaliststudio.com
www.thevocaliststudio.com/endorsements
www.myspace.com/tvsvox : www.youtube.com/roblunte

Re: Differences in falsetto and head voice.

I agree with that statement 100% Robert

OmniMediaMasters Mainsite Administration- http://www.MajesticPlanet.com  , Check out my new videos on my  MySpace: http://www.Myspace.com/KingofPanormos

Re: Differences in falsetto and head voice.

Robert Lunte wrote:

Martin, I did not say you wouldn't engage the TA?  I didnt say you would "hold" the falsetto mode?  The higher you go in your range the more powerfull your falsetto becomes?  really?...humm.  To say that using CVT terms upsets people is a false statement and imature, thats never been the issue with you Martin.

No I know you didn't say that - I did! To explain why I agree with MB smile

I' sorry if if the statement about using CVT terms seems false and imature to you....but one has told me he was tired of me "showeling" CVT down peoples throats and even you Robert has told me that you've become weired of me always refering to CVT! Maybe that's not upset,  maybe annoyed would be a better word(English is not my first language) -but it's definately not false!

And yes the higher you go in your range the louder you can get! The same goes for falsetto:

"As F0 is increased in the falsetto/flute register coordination, optimal action by the primary adductor muscles (closers), combined with the “stretching” (lengthening) action of the cricothyroids, results in complete adduction and a fairly wide intensity range."   - Thurman

Last edited by Martin H (2008-07-07 12:28:40)

Re: Differences in falsetto and head voice.

Whatever Martin... HOWEVER, your Thurman quotes and references to research and a lot of what you have to say is pretty good... In regards to the research and links to scientific quotes, Im glad someone is bringing that into the forum.

THE VOCALIST STUDIO
Robert J. Lunte
425.444.5053
robert@thevocaliststudio.com
www.thevocaliststudio.com/endorsements
www.myspace.com/tvsvox : www.youtube.com/roblunte

Re: Differences in falsetto and head voice.

This is not the forum for dismissive or disrespectful comments regardless of the margin of disagreement.

Take it offline if you feel the need to vent towards another person.

Mary Beth

Mary Beth Felker
The Voice Project
The new voice in artist development....
http://www.thevoiceproject.com
503.284.9488/Portland or 206.465.4536/Seattle
Skype: TVPPro

Re: Differences in falsetto and head voice.

hey, how long was i offline for? lol...all this is going to take a month to read and understand

Re: Differences in falsetto and head voice.

Jaime,
Do you practice moving from full voice to falsetto or only from falsetto to full voice?
Do you use (and teach) using the falsetto function in the "messa di voce" in the low parts?
Are you using falsetto when breaking glass?

Martin,
If you have URLs or references (book titles / isbn's) of the works of vocal researchers, I think it would be of interest to many.

Re: Differences in falsetto and head voice.

I start off with false to full, but have variations where you go from full to false. Yes I use Messa di voca in the lower parts. I go down to about an A below middle C, but that's me personally. Someone on here had said you shopuldn't do that because, don't quote me on this, but I think the reason they gave was that is could be dmaging or dangerous? Anyways, that isn't true. I, like all coaches am always striving to learn more and be better. I have even been taking lessons from a fellow coach on here named Michael Rocchio because he is a true teacher of Bel Canto. So I am learning some classical techniques. What are we doing a lot of? Messa Di Voce' starting as low as I can do it;)

I would call the tone I use to break glasses a reinforced falsetto, but others such as Rob would say it is a full on head tone. It doesn't feel like falsetto because it is very loud and vibrant but it lacks the resonant full quality of a tone I'd use to sing...unless I was singing the Bee Gees wink However, when I learned to mak this sound, I used an exercise by my coahc Jim Gillette where he said to "swell the falsetto" until it is big and bright, thus the term reinforced falsetto. (Actually I got that term from Thomas Appell).

Jaime Vendera
JaimeVendera.com
theultimatevocalworkout.com

Re: Differences in falsetto and head voice.

Humm... I have been thinking that your glass breaking tone is more "metallic" and "cut"... I could be a little off here... maybe it has high sub-glottal pressures in the head voice, but your laryngeal configuration is not tilted to a twangy "cut"... perhaps its more "projected" or "vertical" as we say at TVS... more closely related to a flutier falsetto sound... however, if thats the case JV, if you then softly tilt your thyroid cartiledge into that sound, you will have a really aggressive "cut" to it... right?   And if you experiment with that... you would be "twanging" in the head voice, thus one of the techniques Im really getting a lot of success with at TVS.

www.thevocaliststudio.com/inthestudio

THE VOCALIST STUDIO
Robert J. Lunte
425.444.5053
robert@thevocaliststudio.com
www.thevocaliststudio.com/endorsements
www.myspace.com/tvsvox : www.youtube.com/roblunte

Re: Differences in falsetto and head voice.

Robert,

To clarify on th "falsetto" and high part of the voice:

When you are in the high/very high part of your voice - let's say C5 and upwards then you'll be able to sing relatively loud in falsetto (remember I said able, you can also sing softly if you like). That's because the cords are stretched very much and you can now have full vocal cord closure meaning they can restand more sub-glottal pressure hence more volume - also remember that higher frequencies is percieved louder than lower ones.

In CVT you are told that if you want to sing in one mode(ex. Curbing) through out your whole range, then you WILL get louder the higher you go in your range - a D5 is a lot louder than a D4 in Curbing! And if you DON'T follow that rule you'll most likely loose the mode. If you want an even volume then you'll have to switch modes.

Another interesting thing is the "thyryroid cartilage tilt" that you mention. Can you please explain that specific function and how it relates to a more "aggressive" or "cut" sound??

Because what I've read(Titze, Sundberg, Sataloff etc.) the thyroid cartilage tilts when pitch is raised
due to CT contraction(the cricoid cartilage also tilts). So when you "tilt" you actually just raise the pitch.

Last edited by Martin H (2008-07-09 09:30:16)

Re: Differences in falsetto and head voice.

I'd like to again point out that although there is scientific data,video of people making sounds full voice,falsetto etc. I've yet to see any with anyone full throttle singing! ie- queen of the ryche with a scope down the throat or a full verse of an aria with high b, bflat high c. these test are generally limited to some sounds and some areas. if anyone has video or knows of video that shows other please post a link

OmniMediaMasters Mainsite Administration- http://www.MajesticPlanet.com  , Check out my new videos on my  MySpace: http://www.Myspace.com/KingofPanormos

Re: Differences in falsetto and head voice.

I doubt you'll find it. Having a friend who does a good bit of strobes (throat surgery), he says they not only numb you, but hold you tongue. lol. There are equipment to detect the musculature and their changes/involvement, but that doesn't SHOW what's happening. So, if you happen to find one, I'd love to see as well. When I get insurance I plan on TRYING.

BTW, I like Darrison better than the old name. wink

- Josh

Domine Deus Omnipotens in cuius manu omnis victoria constistit.
Reach Beyond Everything... and you might find more than you were looking for in the first place.
Lean not to thine own understanding.

Re: Differences in falsetto and head voice.

Darrison,

I don't think that will be possible with the technology of today.

Full throttle singing requires a lot of tilting of the epiglottis(twang) which blocks the view down to the vocal cords sad

Last edited by Martin H (2008-07-09 12:24:53)

Re: Differences in falsetto and head voice.

my point was that regardless of the teachings, modes data- it's actaully incomplete information unless that data is based in the actual full usage- there quite possibly are other things going on in the throat that are not measurable.
Beyond tenor-Thanks,so do I- I like being who I am rather then what others have tried to impose upon me and the related associations and i was not comfortable with my old(parent given name) most likely because I have three uncles and 14 cousins with the name sal as well and my father gave my first name to my brother as a middle name. I just needed my own Identity. My family is very large. My Great grandmother on my mothers side alone had thirteen children. lol
I may have one or two little murats running around someday lol,but thats my limit. Who could handle or afford more ?

Last edited by Darrison N Bentheim-Murat (2008-07-09 11:15:22)

OmniMediaMasters Mainsite Administration- http://www.MajesticPlanet.com  , Check out my new videos on my  MySpace: http://www.Myspace.com/KingofPanormos

Re: Differences in falsetto and head voice.

I thought my family was huge. Dang. I run an orphanage, basically, so I know how it goes. I am only 22.

- Josh

Domine Deus Omnipotens in cuius manu omnis victoria constistit.
Reach Beyond Everything... and you might find more than you were looking for in the first place.
Lean not to thine own understanding.

Re: Differences in falsetto and head voice.

The thyroid tilt thing was brought up before but it was just glossed over really so I would be interested in hearing about this configuration too.
Btw Martin, are you contracting your epiglottis? Impressive. Looks loke you are the first person on the planet who can contract cartilage!! :-D.

~Ben

Those who are afraid to fall never fly